Wait – Don’t go to the movie theater!

It isn’t an issue of crashing or not, or any neglect by TiVo, etc. The simple fact is the Series2 does not have the hardware to decode MPEG-4/H.264 or WMV/VC-1. Period. It will NEVER be able to decode them.

YouTube is using H.264, Netflix is using VC-1. The Series3 and TiVo HD have newer decodes which can handle both formats, in addition to the MPEG-2 the S2 handles. If you want streaming media you need an advanced codec like H.264 or VC-1, and that means you need the newer hardware. That’s life. I still have an old P90 Dell PC kicking around (currently unused) and I would no more expect to be able to play a Blu-ray movie on it than I would expect the S2 to stream Netflix. Sometimes you just need new hardware.

Netflix doesn’t do downloads, period. They stream, and to stream video, even SD, you need a more efficient codec. Netflix only uses VC-1 for all of their streaming. They’re not going to re-encode everything special just for TiVo S2 users (neither will YouTube), especially when it would be pretty crappy picture quality at the same bandwidth. MPEG-2 is usually 2-4x as large as H.264/VC-1. So you need 2-4x the bandwidth for the same picture, or you get 1/2 to 1/4 the quality for the same bandwidth. And as it stands even using VC-1 a lot of Netflix streaming users can’t get their higher quality images – and those are all SD.

Netflix only just this week introduced HD streaming on a limited number of titles, with the Xbox the first HD streaming platform.

It is out of TiVo’s hands, the number of S2 users is way too small for Netflix or YouTube to retool their service to support. Download services like Amazon, Jaman, and Disney/CinemaNow don’t have to worry about the bandwidth because they can download slower than real time if the bandwidth is too low – and that’s what they do, they’re encoding bit rates are higher than the broadband bit rates for most users. They also don’t have other STB relationships like Netflix does – which means they get more from TiVo than Netflix does, making it worth more to them to work with TiVo. Netflix has partnerships with MS (Xbox), LG and Samsung (Blu-ray players), and Roku (the dedicated $99 box), TiVo is just another channel for them, and they use the same streaming service for everyone.

The S2 is not going to get all the new features, period. It just can’t support them – it doesn’t have decoders for newer codecs, it has a slower CPU, less RAM (32MB in the S2, 64MB in the S2DT – compared to 256MB total in the S3 & HD), and just generally they lack the ‘oomph’ of the newer platform. Over time more and more features will land on the S3 and HD and not the S2. That’s just how it is, and if you feel the need to switch to something else, do so.

BlueRidgePro,

You have either not read any or the previous comments or you really don’t get it. What part of WILL NOT SUPPORT is too hard to understand?

TiVo has NO CONTROL over what Netflix and YouTube use. Netflix and YouTube use streaming technology that is not compatible with the Series2 hardware. TiVo can’t force then to change. The streaming services are NOT supplied by TiVo, they are supplied by the partners. TiVo has no ability to change how those services work, they can only implement support for them as-is. And as-is they are *incompatible* with the Series2. Period. That’s a very simple concept that anyone should be able to understand.

But say, hypothetically, that TiVo could get them to change. You would likely be unhappy with the results. Streaming MPEG-2 would look like crap to most users, so even if they could make Netflix and YouTube use MPEG-2, in the end you’d get a service no one would really want to use. It’d look maybe as good as a Basic level TiVo recording, and perhaps worse, for most users. People already complain that at lower bitrates the current Netflix streaming service doesn’t look that good, and that’s using VC-1. MPEG-2 would provide 2-4x worse picture quality at the same bitrates.

But it is moot, because neither Netflix nor YouTube is going to switch to MPEG-2. They’d have to be idiots to do so. Neither one of them really cares about TiVo Series2 users. As I said, TiVo users are small fry to both of them, not worth doing anything special. And it is probably a better business move for them NOT to do so because providing a poor quality service would be more damaging to their brand image than simply not providing the service at all. Especially since you’ve proven consumers wouldn’t understand the reasons for the quality, or lack thereof.

It is NOT a business decision for TiVo, it isn’t even an OPTION for TiVo to support Series2 boxes. The fact is that it *IS* a ‘tech dweeb video encoding debate’, that’s *fundamental* to the discussion. Trying to ignore that is just blatantly ignorant. It is trying to ignore the entire crux of the matter.

“They can’t do X because of Y.”
“Well, ignoring Y, they’re stupid not to do X.”

“You can’t breathe in space, there is no air.”
“This isn’t a science dweeb discussion about air, they’re stupid for not letting me breathe in space.”

You can’t just ignore the pertinent facts if they’re not convenient to your argument or if you can’t understand them.

Let me put it in childlike terms – the square peg won’t fit in the round hole, no matter how much you wish it would.

It doesn’t matter if I want TiVo to survive or not. It doesn’t matter that it might be better for business for TiVo to provide the service to Series2 owners. NONE of that matters, because the hardware cannot do it. TiVo can want to do it. You can want them to do it. But all the wanting in the world can’t make Series2 hardware compatible with Netflix or YouTube streams. And those are the cold, hard facts.

If you don’t like reality, well, I’m afraid you’re in for a lifetime of disappointments.

And I’ll say it again, TiVo is not writing off anyone. They just released the 9.3.2 update for the Series2. They continue to get updates, but increasingly there will be features added to the S3/HD boxes that the S2 won’t get. And that’s because the S3/HD hardware can do things the S2 hardware cannot do. That’s life and progress. And eventually the S2 will be phased out completely just like the S1 was, but that’ll happen over time. It is clear that the future for TiVo is based on the TiVo HD platform.

That’s nice, but a non-sequitur. The streaming services have nothing to do with standard definition vs. high definition. That’s incidental in the product. It just happens that the HD products are also the products with advanced codec support – they don’t even use those codecs for HD content. (HD – ATSC and digital cable – is still encoded with MPEG-2 in the US.) And it still just won’t work for the Series2.

Ignorance (or perhaps stupidity as you’ve been shown the facts and really can’t claim ignorance at this point) is not something to be proud of. It shows your immaturity to ridicule those trying to enlighten you and explain the facts of a situation. I suppose you’re not comfortable with facts.

Sure I get worked up at times, I’m trying to explain things to people to be helpful and it is exasperating when someone is acting like a five year old with their fingers in their ears chanting “nananananana I can’t hear you!”. Willful ignorance is just annoying, not to mention highly unflattering. But I do take satisfaction knowing that in the end I’m not the one out of touch with reality.

It is interesting that both of you share the same IP address. Which is part of a small block of just 256 IPs belonging to Roadstar Internet Services – serving Loudoun County, VA and the surrounding area. I’m sure that’s due to you sharing a proxy, but you’re neighbors. If I were a cynical man I’d think you two knew each other and it wasn’t a cosmic coincidence.

Oh, wait, I am a cynical man.

But if you want to act like children, fine, I’ll act accordingly – you’re both on time out.