Roku’s New Boxes Highlight Where TiVo is Failing in OTT Content

TiVo Logo I’m a big fan of TiVo, that’s no secret. I think that TiVo is the best DVR available today, and I don’t hesitate to recommend it. But don’t for a minute think that means I believe they’re perfect and don’t have areas that need improvement. And sometimes those care about need a little tough love. So here we go…

One of my pet peeves is their handling of Over-The-Top (OTT) content aka streaming and downloadable video from the likes of Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, etc.

Let’s start with TiVo’s Netflix support. When it launched, back in December 2008, TiVo’s Netflix implementation was basically as functional as its contemporaries. There were some serious limitations – not being able to add titles to your queue, limited searching, etc. But those were limitations shared by all Netflix streaming implementations. Fast-forward two and a half years and TiVo’s implementation – is still pretty much the same as it was at launch. Meanwhile other implementations – on Blu-ray players, gaming consoles, streaming boxes, etc., have made great leaps forward. Roku’s new player on the Roku 2 line supports 1080p video, 5.1 surround sound, and subtitles – none of which TiVo supports. Not to mention features that have been in there previously such as searching the available titles and adding titles to your queue.

When the TiVo Premiere launched over a year ago, in March 2010, it was called “the One Box to Rule Them All”. Even then I felt that was undeserved hyperbole, and I feel that even moreso today. It was touted as being your one-stop-shop for content:

It’s the One Box: TiVo Premiere is your new cable box, movie box, web box, and music box; it’s the one box that gives you access to everything you want to get on your television and all with one remote. It’s a true one stop shop for entertainment.

Yes, the selection of content is respectable enough – Netflix (despite the horrendously out-dated player), Amazon Instant Video (despite still lacking streaming support), Blockbuster, Hulu (on the Premiere only, natch), YouTube, Music Choice, and web videos. But it is far from market leading. Most decent Blu-ray players and game consoles include a similar lineup these days, and often more. But this is hardly a market leading lineup. Let’s even include TiVo’s list of web videos. It still doesn’t measure up to, say, Roku’s content options. TiVo, while you’re updating the geriatric Netflix client, and implementing streaming for Amazon Instant Video so TiVo users can join every other platform with free videos for Prime members, how about MLB.com? Crunchyroll? Flixster? Movie Vault? NASA TV? You get the point. Oh, and fix the damn YouTube client too, some of the functions in there have been broken for what seems like forever.

To put it simply, if someone is looking for a DVR which also provides some OTT content, I’d recommend TiVo. But for anyone who is mainly interested in OTT content, I would never recommend TiVo. I’d probably recommend a Roku as their best option. TiVo isn’t even in the top five. I’d put connected TVs, gaming consoles, Blu-ray players, and other STBs like Boxee before I’d recommend TiVo to someone seriously interested in OTT content. Again, if they really want a DVR and would like the ability to access some OTT content, sure, TiVo is my first recommendation. But I could not in good conscience recommend TiVo to someone who had a serious interest in OTT.

I gave my now fiancee a Roku HD-XR, the high-end box from their second generation (the Roku 2 is actually the fourth generation), for Xmas 2009, shortly after we started dating. She watched Netflix streaming a lot at the time, but was doing it all on her 15″ laptop while she had an HDTV across the room. So I gave her the Roku to use instead. Since she moved in with me last fall I’ve set up the Roku in the bedroom, but it doesn’t get much use. We use the TiVo for most OTT content, with the PS3 as secondary, as they’re both on the main TV in the living room.

But I have played with the Roku just to experience it, and I think their ’tile’ interface is far superior to TiVo’s. And their content selection simply puts TiVo to shame. If TiVo is serious about playing in the OTT market, they really need to get more content, especially real-time content, on board. I’m increasingly tempted to move the Roku, or get a second one, to be able to access content like NASA TV, Crunchyroll, and other content on our main set – instead of using the TiVo. Or Amazon Instant Video’s free streaming for Amazon Prime users, which TiVo has promised but not yet delivered.

Any content TiVo offers I believe is also on Roku – and often in a superior format. TiVo’s list of officially sanctioned web videos is littered with cruft – stale podcasts that are long since defunct. Some of the podcasts they list are SD versions when there are HD versions available. They’re simply lacking real-time streaming content outside of the ‘big boys’ Netflix, Hulu Plus, and YouTube. NASA TV would be a great addition. You can download the SpaceVidCast podcasts on TiVo – but on Roku you can watch the streaming live shows and access their premium content.

TiVo’s interface to select web video content has not aged well. The content is grouped in ways that often don’t make sense to me. I’ve grown increasingly frustrated with it over the years, as things that used to be ‘quirks’ have aged into ‘major annoyances’. For example, if you browse by ‘all’ why are some shows grouped – like NY Times content – but also listed individually? And why aren’t other logical groups also there? Why isn’t there a group for all CNET shows? (I don’t mean the one item where you can subscribe to them all, I mean a folder like the NY Times has.) Or Revision3 shows? It would be better for users and the content providers if it were easier to find all of their shows in one folder.

Why are there so many defunct podcasts still listed, cluttering the list. especially in the bunch at the end that require TiVo desktop to transcode? Some of them have been dead for a year or two now. Why are some podcasts listed only in HD versions, some in both HD & SD, and others only in SD? And I don’t mean those that are only available in one or the other, but those that have HD & SD options. Even among the HD podcasts from the same provider it seems sometimes different HD variants may be used.

It is a frustrating mess. Worse, it is a buggy, frustrating mess. If I scroll up and down too much, especially in long lists of podcasts, it will inevitably crash and kick me out to TiVo Central. Sometimes I’ve discovered ‘poison listings’ where if my cursor so much as highlights that title it will crash out to TiVo Central. And I can reproduce it every time I highlight that title. These issues come and go, it is a little bit of random fun – will it crash on me this time? Let’s find out!

And how about the pitiful RSS support? You can enter an RSS feed for a podcast that isn’t listed – but all that does is store the feed for you and you have to remember to manually check it to see if there is a new episode up. How is that at all TiVo-like? It is pretty much anti-TiVo. Why can’t it work like the ‘blessed’ podcasts and periodically check for new episodes and download them? That’s kind of what RSS is for. So you don’t have to manually check for new content on each site.

If TiVo is serious about being ‘the one box’ and remaining competitive with the explosion of connected TVs, Blu-ray players, gaming consoles, and cheap media boxes like Roku, they need to seriously re-evaluate their approach to OTT content, IMHO. Personally I’d love to see them license Roku’s platform. The UI would need some massaging to blend in better with TiVo’s HDUI, but it’d be a vast improvement – as would the explosion in content offerings. And TiVo would be in a unique position to integrate all of that content into their search platform. That would be truly powerful. (Or maybe TiVo can use some of their new windfall cash reserves to acquire Roku outright.) Beefing up their OTT offerings should make them an even more attractive partner for MVPDs who are facing cord cutters and those simply cutting back on their package levels, using OTT to fill in the gaps.

Offer content creators an API to publish their content on TiVo, without jumping through too many hoops or getting blessed. Create a system to sell premium content, subscriptions, etc, to the user – and TiVo can take a cut. Like Amazon and the Kindle – anyone can self-publish their book, blog, or the like to the Kindle. Amazon collects the fees and takes their cut, passing the rest on the the creator. TiVo should be able to do the same, with or without Roku. TiVo seems to be more and more Apple-like, acting like a walled garden and not the platform to end all platforms they claim to be.

You may have read about the Virgin Media TiVo in the UK and the way it integrates OTT content like BBC iPlayer and ‘catch up’ features into search and the guide. TiVo in the US could do much the same using OTT content – missed a show? Scroll back in the guide and it links to Netflix, Hulu, the network site, wherever that episode is available. Watching game you recorded? TiVo could pop up links to related content on MLB.com. Watching anime you recorded off Adult Swim? Maybe it suggests a related show from Crunchyroll.com.

Now that would be one box to rule them all – and not a pretender making unsupportable claims on the throne.

But that’s just my two cents. You may not agree.

About MegaZone

MegaZone is the Editor of Gizmo Lovers and the chief contributor. He's been online since 1989 and active in several generations of 'social media' - mailing lists, USENet groups, web forums, and since 2003, blogging.    MegaZone has a presence on several social platforms: Google+ / Facebook / Twitter / LinkedIn / LiveJournal / Web.    You can also follow Gizmo Lovers on other sites: Blog / Google+ / Facebook / Twitter.
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  • http://www.techofthehub.com The Hub

    Hi Megazone,

    I agree that the TiVo needs a lot of improvement in the OTT area. TiVo is working on a improved Amazon client that supports streaming but they won’t give out an expected launch date.

    I also like the idea of an open API but does TiVo really have enough active subscribers to make it attractive to developers?

    It feels like TiVo’s real focus right now is partnering with MVPDs. While they have had some nice additions lately like Hulu Plus, it feels like they are running up against some resource limitations. 

  • http://www.techofthehub.com The Hub

    Hi Megazone,

    I agree that the TiVo needs a lot of improvement in the OTT area. TiVo is working on a improved Amazon client that supports streaming but they won’t give out an expected launch date.

    I also like the idea of an open API but does TiVo really have enough active subscribers to make it attractive to developers?

    It feels like TiVo’s real focus right now is partnering with MVPDs. While they have had some nice additions lately like Hulu Plus, it feels like they are running up against some resource limitations. 

  • Anyemailuser

    Thank You for a spot on assessment!  TIVO’s Management team needs more revealing reviews such as this!   Last year, I upgraded to the TIVO Premiere because it offered simplified access to multiple sources of media, with very low power requirements and limited wiring.  In my research, this was a better alternative to managing multiple HDPC’s or media boxes such as those offered by Roku, Boxee, or AppleTV.  

    In practicality, TIVO is still a great DVR with a number of acceptable 3rd party media services.  However, while there have been minor steps forward (HULU PLUS & Pandora) on the Premiere over the last year, TIVO Product Management has consistently disappointed their long term customers by failing to attend to persistent issues with its HDUI; minimal Netflix UI; missing Amazon Prime support; and substandard DLNA support.  In addition to glaring product deficiencies, TIVO Management has the arrogance to believe their monthly service is worth an 80% increase, making the combined monthly fees for a Premiere with CableCard $5-$15 higher than most Cable Company DVR’s!   

    Over the last year, the value proposition for a TIVO Premiere has drifted farther below the bar required by retail buyers and serious reviewers (such as this site), which is driving new consumers (and long time TIVO customers) toward other options.   Sadly, TIVO mistakenly believes they are still a leader in this space….  

  • Anyemailuser

    Thank You for a spot on assessment!  TIVO’s Management team needs more revealing reviews such as this!   Last year, I upgraded to the TIVO Premiere because it offered simplified access to multiple sources of media, with very low power requirements and limited wiring.  In my research, this was a better alternative to managing multiple HDPC’s or media boxes such as those offered by Roku, Boxee, or AppleTV.  

    In practicality, TIVO is still a great DVR with a number of acceptable 3rd party media services.  However, while there have been minor steps forward (HULU PLUS & Pandora) on the Premiere over the last year, TIVO Product Management has consistently disappointed their long term customers by failing to attend to persistent issues with its HDUI; minimal Netflix UI; missing Amazon Prime support; and substandard DLNA support.  In addition to glaring product deficiencies, TIVO Management has the arrogance to believe their monthly service is worth an 80% increase, making the combined monthly fees for a Premiere with CableCard $5-$15 higher than most Cable Company DVR’s!   

    Over the last year, the value proposition for a TIVO Premiere has drifted farther below the bar required by retail buyers and serious reviewers (such as this site), which is driving new consumers (and long time TIVO customers) toward other options.   Sadly, TIVO mistakenly believes they are still a leader in this space….  

  • Fanfoot

    Very nicely said.  Hope Tivo is listening, but given their feature velocity, I’m not expecting much.

    I expect I’m a lot like other (remaining) Tivo users, in that I’m slowly drifting away to other services, while continuing to hang on to Tivo as my DVR of choice. 

    I use an Apple TV to watch recent movies since it has a much better UI and streams more quickly than the Amazon client on the Tivo. 

    I now use a Roku box to watch the latest Top Gear HD episodes, since like everything else on the net they’re in MKV format and of course TTG doesn’t support that (I used to convert the videos using the free Tivo Converter but that hasn’t been updated in years and doesn’t of course support the more recent MKV format).

    I use the Roku to stream episodes of Sesame Street for my daughter, since they’re free for streaming to Amazon Prime customers, which Tivo doesn’t support.

    I use the Apple TV to play back music since the user interface, Genius feature, playlists, photo slide shows, etc are all far better than anything on the Tivo.

    I use the Apple TV to handle photo slide shows and to play back home videos I’ve shot, again since the Tivo either doesn’t do a good job of these tasks, or doesn’t handle the formats I use (AVC HD in this case, meaning transport streams).

    I play music at parties sometimes using MOG on my iPhone to stream radio stations or ‘Genius’ type playlists to the TV/Receiver using Air Play to the Apple TV.  Be happy to use MOG or Spottify or Rdio if there were a Tivo client, but there isn’t…

    Etc.  Slowly but surely, Tivo is becoming less important to me…

  • Mhoenck

    I completely agree with everything in this article.

  • Guest

    TiVo is/was great at indexing show info and recommending shows, something Roku doesn’t have and desperately needs (note: I have and like both).

    With OTA and cable, TiVo takes your “method of access,” custom-tailors your list of channels (i.e. do you have HBO, Showtim, etc.), you tell it what shows you want from each channel, TiVo then checks in with a database to update the list of channels, shows, episodes, etc. to give you new content.

    Couldn’t TiVo do this exact same process for OTT with Roku: find out which Roku channels you have, what shows you want from each channel, then update each show’s info, taking the data via RSS? Can’t it make recommendations based on this (i.e. if you like “Stella” with David Wain on Hulu, you’ll like “Wainy Days” with David Wain on MyDamnChannel? I’m assuming most Roku channels have RSS feeds, so isn’t this data easily obtained and updated?

    TiVo tried and failed to do with its OTT channels what Roku succeeded at. Meanwhile, Roku deperately needs a good channel and show guide, which nobody besides TiVo has managed to do successfully.  

    Am I off base here? What barriers are there? TiVo’s subscription model?

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