More Information On The TiVo Stream And IP STB

Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 by MegaZone

TiVo IP STB Setup Screen Since I made my post about the forthcoming TiVo Stream and IP STB last night I’ve been getting a lot of questions, and there were a few things I wondered about myself after I had some time to digest things. So I dropped by TiVo’s booth at The Cable Show again today and gathered some more information – including the photo you see here.

As they say, a picture is worth 1,000 words, and this one answers some of the questions I had, and that I heard from readers. Note that the photo is from a box running development software, so the screen and/or language therein may change before release, etc. But the underlying logic is what we should expect in the initial release. As you can see, you do not have to give up a tuner on your Premiere XL4 to use the IP STB – if you’re willing to forego Live TV, as I am. Basically you’re reserving one or two tuners in the XL4 for use by IP STB(s) elsewhere in the home. When a tuner is reserved it is not available for anything else. It is not used for recordings, it is only used for Live TV on the IP STB. Period.

Now, one question that occurred to me after I’d left the show today was if a tuner is paired with a single IP STB, or if it can be shared. Say you have one XL4 and three IP STBs – can you reserve just one tuner which would allow any one of the three IP STBs to use Live TV at a time? I’ll need to ask that.

But, that aside, you can see that you have the option to reserve 0, 1, or 2 tuners for use by IP STBs. Personally I’d go with 0 as I never use Live TV and would only want the IP STB to access my recordings or OTT content. I think this will make a number of people happy. Also, this is a settings screen on the XL4 and you can change this whenever you want. So it isn’t something you have to do at setup, etc. So if you know you want to watch Live TV in another room (the game is on, you’re sick in bed, whatever) you can reserve a tuner and then un-reserve it when you no longer need it.

Speaking of setup, there apparently really isn’t much of one on the IP STB. Setup basically involves ‘pairing’ it with the XL4 – and that’s it. There’s nothing else to setup, it pulls all of the settings it needs from the XL4. I’m told there are very few settings local to the IP STB.

I did confirm that the will not pair with the Premiere or Premiere XL at launch, only the Premiere XL4 (aka the Premiere Q for MSOs). So no Live TV on your IP STB if that’s all you have. And this isn’t a ‘soft’ thing where it isn’t officially supported but you can make it work, the software is just not there to support it on those units. However, the IP STB is a standard Multi-Room Streaming (MRS) client. It can stream content of of any Premiere unit in the home. So it does work with the Premiere and Premiere XL in as far as you’ll be able to stream your recordings via MRS. My understanding is that you will not be able to set recordings on the Premiere or Premiere XL, etc., as that requires the pairing that can only be done with the XL4. Basically whatever you can do with MRS between Premieres today you can do from the IP STB, but that’s all – for now at least. (I’m going to double check to make sure that’s accurate.)

As for pricing – again, they haven’t said yet. We don’t know if they’ll be a one-time purchase, or if there will be a subscription required, etc. Personally I expect them both to be one-time purchases with no subscription requirement. But they will need to be activated on the TiVo account so that they get the same MAK and can connect to the TiVo DVR units on the network.

I did have an idea which I suggested to TiVo – parental lock down on the IP STB. Basically ‘KidZone’ on a per-box basis. My idea is that you could put an IP STB in the kids’ room and lock it down so it can only access a wall garden of recordings and channels, just like KidZone did. You’d be able to (dis)allow functions – so the kids couldn’t delete recordings, or cancel them, or setup new recordings, etc. Whatever power you want to give them. Basically they’d have their own Nerfed virtual TiVo.

Enough about the IP STB, how about the TiVo Stream? The Stream will transcode at native resolution. So the 1080i recording remains 1080i as H.264, and the 720p recording remains 720p as H.264, etc. So it isn’t fixed, or limited to 720p, etc. And side-loading happens at better than real time. I was told ’2x’ is a good rule of thumb – so a 30 minute recording will side-load in 15 minutes, etc. But this varies depending on the bit rate of the source material. A 19mbps minimally compressed HD ATSC stream will probably take closer to real time, while a 2mbps highly compressed SD digital cable recording will likely side-load very quickly. In other words, results will vary, but it isn’t stuck with only doing real-time transcodes for side-loading.

Right now the TiVo Stream will only stream content from a TiVo DVR to one of the TiVo client apps on iOS or Android. TiVo hasn’t announced anything for other platforms at this time. I don’t know if we might see an updated version of TiVo Desktop that would support streaming to a PC, though it may make more sense to just add MRS to TiVo Desktop to allow it to stream content to a TiVo as well as from one. And PCs can handle MPEG-2, so I don’t see the need for a TiVo Stream for that.

Hopefully this news makes a few folks happy.

Lastly, this won’t be news to regular readers of this blog, but the Stream is powered by a Zenverge ZN200 chip. I speculated to that effect last year, and TiVo confirmed it for me in February, but today it was officially announced via press release. The release is below:

Zenverge Showcases TransAll™ technology with TiVo’s new TiVo Stream

TiVo Stream to extend TV viewing to mobile devices with the world’s first deployment of multi-screen streaming from a DVR

BOSTON, May 22, 2012 /PRNewswire/ — Zenverge Inc., a leading developer of Advanced Content Networking ICs, and TiVo Inc. (NASDAQ: TIVO), the creator of and a leader in advanced television services including digital video recorders (DVRs), announced TiVo® Stream, a revolutionary product enabling streaming to tablets and smartphones with the same rich TV viewing experience TiVo customers know and love.

Based on the industry leading Zenverge TransAll™ Transcode engine, TiVo Stream will allow a viewer to seamlessly stream or download multiple live or recorded shows from a TiVo Premiere DVR to multiple devices like iPads or iPhones simultaneously. Its unique fast side-load capability is a critical element of a true on-demand experience and allows users to quickly download favorite shows to their tablets for later viewing.

This product takes advantage of the Zenverge TransFormat™, TransRate™, and TransScale™ functions to convert broadcast content into the format supported by tablets and smartphones. TransZip&treade; allows side-loading DVR content at a high speed into mobile devices for sync-n-go. Lastly, TransCrypt&treade; ensures that live and DVR content can be securely distributed in the home.

“Cable MSOs are keen to extend the whole home experience beyond the TV to include mobile devices,” said TiVo’s David Sandford, Vice President and General Manager, Service Provider Business. “Using the unprecedented quad HD transcoding capabilities of the Zenverge ZN200, we are bringing the unique TiVo experience that consumers love to the mobile screens.”

“We’re excited to work with TiVo on extending their premium TV viewing experience to second screens as they pioneer yet another blockbuster entertainment product following their success with the DVR,” said Zenverge’s Raghu Rao, Executive Vice President of Sales and Business Development. “TiVo Stream will enable service providers using TiVo’s innovative advanced TV solutions to create a compelling anywhere, anytime, any device experience for their customers.”

Zenverge’s Advanced Content Networking ICs are the preferred transcoding solution for operators and box manufacturers for devices such as Gateways, DVRs, and IP/Broadcast streaming adapters.

About MegaZone

MegaZone is the Editor of Gizmo Lovers and the chief contributor. He's been online since 1989 and active in several generations of 'social media' - mailing lists, USENet groups, web forums, and since 2003, blogging.    MegaZone has a presence on several social platforms: Google+ / Facebook / Twitter / LinkedIn / LiveJournal / Web.    You can also follow Gizmo Lovers on other sites: Blog / Google+ / Facebook / Twitter.
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  • Jackmehoff

    Does the stream have built in moca?

    • NoWayOut99

      The Stream connects to the network by ethernet.

    • http://www.gizmolovers.com/ MegaZone

      No, as I said in my previous post the TiVo Stream has only two connections – Ethernet and power.  The idea is you’d put it anywhere on your network – but ideally right next to your WiFi router.  It streams the content over the wired network then handles the conversion and sends it back out to go to the device – which is probably going to be on WiFi.  So having it next to the router makes sense.

  • http://dullgeek.blogspot.com dullgeek

    Ok. So the difference between the stream and the STB is that the stream’s purpose is to share TiVo content with mobile devices either by streaming it to them or side loading it. While the STB’s purpose is to share TiVo content with another TV.

    I’m glad that I can use the STB as a standard MRS client. That’s good news as I cut the cord 2 years ago. So I get my content through a combination of an OTA antenna, netflix, and ripping all of my DVDs to a server and delivering them via pyTivo.

    The live TV thing, in my case, is less of an issue. I’ve got non-tivo live TV sent to all of my TV’s already (all of my TV’s have a builtin ATSC tuner). I don’t have TiVo on all of my TVs. STB seems like a good solution. Anxious for pricing.

    • http://www.gizmolovers.com/ MegaZone

      The TiVo Stream’s purpose is to extend MRS streaming to ‘second screen’ devices (iOS & Android phones and tablets) as well as to side load content onto them.

      The IP STB’s purpose is to eliminate the need for additional TiVo DVRs in other rooms.  The idea is you have on XL4 as your main DVR/content source, and then IP STBs for other TVs in the home.  You have the same TiVo interface, you’re just pulling the content off the XL4 – or directly via IP from streaming services.  If you schedule a recording you’re doing it on the XL4.

      Note that you *MUST* have an XL4 to use the IP STB at launch.  Even though it can access content from the Premiere & Premiere XL via MRS it *requires* an XL4 as setup is handled by ‘pairing’ with the parent DVR – which is only XL4 at launch.  Without an XL4 you can’t setup the IP STB.  This will change in a future update when they added dynamic tuner allocation and add support for the full Premiere family.

      I suspect you’re not happy to hear that.

    • http://www.gizmolovers.com/ MegaZone

      The TiVo Stream’s purpose is to extend MRS streaming to ‘second screen’ devices (iOS & Android phones and tablets) as well as to side load content onto them.

      The IP STB’s purpose is to eliminate the need for additional TiVo DVRs in other rooms.  The idea is you have on XL4 as your main DVR/content source, and then IP STBs for other TVs in the home.  You have the same TiVo interface, you’re just pulling the content off the XL4 – or directly via IP from streaming services.  If you schedule a recording you’re doing it on the XL4.

      Note that you *MUST* have an XL4 to use the IP STB at launch.  Even though it can access content from the Premiere & Premiere XL via MRS it *requires* an XL4 as setup is handled by ‘pairing’ with the parent DVR – which is only XL4 at launch.  Without an XL4 you can’t setup the IP STB.  This will change in a future update when they added dynamic tuner allocation and add support for the full Premiere family.

      I suspect you’re not happy to hear that.

    • http://www.gizmolovers.com/ MegaZone

      The TiVo Stream’s purpose is to extend MRS streaming to ‘second screen’ devices (iOS & Android phones and tablets) as well as to side load content onto them.

      The IP STB’s purpose is to eliminate the need for additional TiVo DVRs in other rooms.  The idea is you have on XL4 as your main DVR/content source, and then IP STBs for other TVs in the home.  You have the same TiVo interface, you’re just pulling the content off the XL4 – or directly via IP from streaming services.  If you schedule a recording you’re doing it on the XL4.

      Note that you *MUST* have an XL4 to use the IP STB at launch.  Even though it can access content from the Premiere & Premiere XL via MRS it *requires* an XL4 as setup is handled by ‘pairing’ with the parent DVR – which is only XL4 at launch.  Without an XL4 you can’t setup the IP STB.  This will change in a future update when they added dynamic tuner allocation and add support for the full Premiere family.

      I suspect you’re not happy to hear that.

    • http://www.gizmolovers.com/ MegaZone

      The TiVo Stream’s purpose is to extend MRS streaming to ‘second screen’ devices (iOS & Android phones and tablets) as well as to side load content onto them.

      The IP STB’s purpose is to eliminate the need for additional TiVo DVRs in other rooms.  The idea is you have on XL4 as your main DVR/content source, and then IP STBs for other TVs in the home.  You have the same TiVo interface, you’re just pulling the content off the XL4 – or directly via IP from streaming services.  If you schedule a recording you’re doing it on the XL4.

      Note that you *MUST* have an XL4 to use the IP STB at launch.  Even though it can access content from the Premiere & Premiere XL via MRS it *requires* an XL4 as setup is handled by ‘pairing’ with the parent DVR – which is only XL4 at launch.  Without an XL4 you can’t setup the IP STB.  This will change in a future update when they added dynamic tuner allocation and add support for the full Premiere family.

      I suspect you’re not happy to hear that.

    • http://www.gizmolovers.com/ MegaZone

      The TiVo Stream’s purpose is to extend MRS streaming to ‘second screen’ devices (iOS & Android phones and tablets) as well as to side load content onto them.

      The IP STB’s purpose is to eliminate the need for additional TiVo DVRs in other rooms.  The idea is you have on XL4 as your main DVR/content source, and then IP STBs for other TVs in the home.  You have the same TiVo interface, you’re just pulling the content off the XL4 – or directly via IP from streaming services.  If you schedule a recording you’re doing it on the XL4.

      Note that you *MUST* have an XL4 to use the IP STB at launch.  Even though it can access content from the Premiere & Premiere XL via MRS it *requires* an XL4 as setup is handled by ‘pairing’ with the parent DVR – which is only XL4 at launch.  Without an XL4 you can’t setup the IP STB.  This will change in a future update when they added dynamic tuner allocation and add support for the full Premiere family.

      I suspect you’re not happy to hear that.

    • http://www.gizmolovers.com/ MegaZone

      The TiVo Stream’s purpose is to extend MRS streaming to ‘second screen’ devices (iOS & Android phones and tablets) as well as to side load content onto them.

      The IP STB’s purpose is to eliminate the need for additional TiVo DVRs in other rooms.  The idea is you have on XL4 as your main DVR/content source, and then IP STBs for other TVs in the home.  You have the same TiVo interface, you’re just pulling the content off the XL4 – or directly via IP from streaming services.  If you schedule a recording you’re doing it on the XL4.

      Note that you *MUST* have an XL4 to use the IP STB at launch.  Even though it can access content from the Premiere & Premiere XL via MRS it *requires* an XL4 as setup is handled by ‘pairing’ with the parent DVR – which is only XL4 at launch.  Without an XL4 you can’t setup the IP STB.  This will change in a future update when they added dynamic tuner allocation and add support for the full Premiere family.

      I suspect you’re not happy to hear that.

    • http://www.gizmolovers.com/ MegaZone

      The TiVo Stream’s purpose is to extend MRS streaming to ‘second screen’ devices (iOS & Android phones and tablets) as well as to side load content onto them.

      The IP STB’s purpose is to eliminate the need for additional TiVo DVRs in other rooms.  The idea is you have on XL4 as your main DVR/content source, and then IP STBs for other TVs in the home.  You have the same TiVo interface, you’re just pulling the content off the XL4 – or directly via IP from streaming services.  If you schedule a recording you’re doing it on the XL4.

      Note that you *MUST* have an XL4 to use the IP STB at launch.  Even though it can access content from the Premiere & Premiere XL via MRS it *requires* an XL4 as setup is handled by ‘pairing’ with the parent DVR – which is only XL4 at launch.  Without an XL4 you can’t setup the IP STB.  This will change in a future update when they added dynamic tuner allocation and add support for the full Premiere family.

      I suspect you’re not happy to hear that.

    • http://www.gizmolovers.com/ MegaZone

      The TiVo Stream’s purpose is to extend MRS streaming to ‘second screen’ devices (iOS & Android phones and tablets) as well as to side load content onto them.

      The IP STB’s purpose is to eliminate the need for additional TiVo DVRs in other rooms.  The idea is you have on XL4 as your main DVR/content source, and then IP STBs for other TVs in the home.  You have the same TiVo interface, you’re just pulling the content off the XL4 – or directly via IP from streaming services.  If you schedule a recording you’re doing it on the XL4.

      Note that you *MUST* have an XL4 to use the IP STB at launch.  Even though it can access content from the Premiere & Premiere XL via MRS it *requires* an XL4 as setup is handled by ‘pairing’ with the parent DVR – which is only XL4 at launch.  Without an XL4 you can’t setup the IP STB.  This will change in a future update when they added dynamic tuner allocation and add support for the full Premiere family.

      I suspect you’re not happy to hear that.

    • http://www.gizmolovers.com/ MegaZone

      The TiVo Stream’s purpose is to extend MRS streaming to ‘second screen’ devices (iOS & Android phones and tablets) as well as to side load content onto them.

      The IP STB’s purpose is to eliminate the need for additional TiVo DVRs in other rooms.  The idea is you have on XL4 as your main DVR/content source, and then IP STBs for other TVs in the home.  You have the same TiVo interface, you’re just pulling the content off the XL4 – or directly via IP from streaming services.  If you schedule a recording you’re doing it on the XL4.

      Note that you *MUST* have an XL4 to use the IP STB at launch.  Even though it can access content from the Premiere & Premiere XL via MRS it *requires* an XL4 as setup is handled by ‘pairing’ with the parent DVR – which is only XL4 at launch.  Without an XL4 you can’t setup the IP STB.  This will change in a future update when they added dynamic tuner allocation and add support for the full Premiere family.

      I suspect you’re not happy to hear that.

    • http://www.gizmolovers.com/ MegaZone

      The TiVo Stream’s purpose is to extend MRS streaming to ‘second screen’ devices (iOS & Android phones and tablets) as well as to side load content onto them.

      The IP STB’s purpose is to eliminate the need for additional TiVo DVRs in other rooms.  The idea is you have on XL4 as your main DVR/content source, and then IP STBs for other TVs in the home.  You have the same TiVo interface, you’re just pulling the content off the XL4 – or directly via IP from streaming services.  If you schedule a recording you’re doing it on the XL4.

      Note that you *MUST* have an XL4 to use the IP STB at launch.  Even though it can access content from the Premiere & Premiere XL via MRS it *requires* an XL4 as setup is handled by ‘pairing’ with the parent DVR – which is only XL4 at launch.  Without an XL4 you can’t setup the IP STB.  This will change in a future update when they added dynamic tuner allocation and add support for the full Premiere family.

      I suspect you’re not happy to hear that.

    • http://www.gizmolovers.com/ MegaZone

      The TiVo Stream’s purpose is to extend MRS streaming to ‘second screen’ devices (iOS & Android phones and tablets) as well as to side load content onto them.

      The IP STB’s purpose is to eliminate the need for additional TiVo DVRs in other rooms.  The idea is you have on XL4 as your main DVR/content source, and then IP STBs for other TVs in the home.  You have the same TiVo interface, you’re just pulling the content off the XL4 – or directly via IP from streaming services.  If you schedule a recording you’re doing it on the XL4.

      Note that you *MUST* have an XL4 to use the IP STB at launch.  Even though it can access content from the Premiere & Premiere XL via MRS it *requires* an XL4 as setup is handled by ‘pairing’ with the parent DVR – which is only XL4 at launch.  Without an XL4 you can’t setup the IP STB.  This will change in a future update when they added dynamic tuner allocation and add support for the full Premiere family.

      I suspect you’re not happy to hear that.

    • http://www.gizmolovers.com/ MegaZone

      The TiVo Stream’s purpose is to extend MRS streaming to ‘second screen’ devices (iOS & Android phones and tablets) as well as to side load content onto them.

      The IP STB’s purpose is to eliminate the need for additional TiVo DVRs in other rooms.  The idea is you have on XL4 as your main DVR/content source, and then IP STBs for other TVs in the home.  You have the same TiVo interface, you’re just pulling the content off the XL4 – or directly via IP from streaming services.  If you schedule a recording you’re doing it on the XL4.

      Note that you *MUST* have an XL4 to use the IP STB at launch.  Even though it can access content from the Premiere & Premiere XL via MRS it *requires* an XL4 as setup is handled by ‘pairing’ with the parent DVR – which is only XL4 at launch.  Without an XL4 you can’t setup the IP STB.  This will change in a future update when they added dynamic tuner allocation and add support for the full Premiere family.

      I suspect you’re not happy to hear that.

    • http://www.gizmolovers.com/ MegaZone

      The TiVo Stream’s purpose is to extend MRS streaming to ‘second screen’ devices (iOS & Android phones and tablets) as well as to side load content onto them.

      The IP STB’s purpose is to eliminate the need for additional TiVo DVRs in other rooms.  The idea is you have on XL4 as your main DVR/content source, and then IP STBs for other TVs in the home.  You have the same TiVo interface, you’re just pulling the content off the XL4 – or directly via IP from streaming services.  If you schedule a recording you’re doing it on the XL4.

      Note that you *MUST* have an XL4 to use the IP STB at launch.  Even though it can access content from the Premiere & Premiere XL via MRS it *requires* an XL4 as setup is handled by ‘pairing’ with the parent DVR – which is only XL4 at launch.  Without an XL4 you can’t setup the IP STB.  This will change in a future update when they added dynamic tuner allocation and add support for the full Premiere family.

      I suspect you’re not happy to hear that.

    • http://www.gizmolovers.com/ MegaZone

      The TiVo Stream’s purpose is to extend MRS streaming to ‘second screen’ devices (iOS & Android phones and tablets) as well as to side load content onto them.

      The IP STB’s purpose is to eliminate the need for additional TiVo DVRs in other rooms.  The idea is you have on XL4 as your main DVR/content source, and then IP STBs for other TVs in the home.  You have the same TiVo interface, you’re just pulling the content off the XL4 – or directly via IP from streaming services.  If you schedule a recording you’re doing it on the XL4.

      Note that you *MUST* have an XL4 to use the IP STB at launch.  Even though it can access content from the Premiere & Premiere XL via MRS it *requires* an XL4 as setup is handled by ‘pairing’ with the parent DVR – which is only XL4 at launch.  Without an XL4 you can’t setup the IP STB.  This will change in a future update when they added dynamic tuner allocation and add support for the full Premiere family.

      I suspect you’re not happy to hear that.

    • http://www.gizmolovers.com/ MegaZone

      The TiVo Stream’s purpose is to extend MRS streaming to ‘second screen’ devices (iOS & Android phones and tablets) as well as to side load content onto them.

      The IP STB’s purpose is to eliminate the need for additional TiVo DVRs in other rooms.  The idea is you have on XL4 as your main DVR/content source, and then IP STBs for other TVs in the home.  You have the same TiVo interface, you’re just pulling the content off the XL4 – or directly via IP from streaming services.  If you schedule a recording you’re doing it on the XL4.

      Note that you *MUST* have an XL4 to use the IP STB at launch.  Even though it can access content from the Premiere & Premiere XL via MRS it *requires* an XL4 as setup is handled by ‘pairing’ with the parent DVR – which is only XL4 at launch.  Without an XL4 you can’t setup the IP STB.  This will change in a future update when they added dynamic tuner allocation and add support for the full Premiere family.

      I suspect you’re not happy to hear that.

    • http://www.gizmolovers.com/ MegaZone

      The TiVo Stream’s purpose is to extend MRS streaming to ‘second screen’ devices (iOS & Android phones and tablets) as well as to side load content onto them.

      The IP STB’s purpose is to eliminate the need for additional TiVo DVRs in other rooms.  The idea is you have on XL4 as your main DVR/content source, and then IP STBs for other TVs in the home.  You have the same TiVo interface, you’re just pulling the content off the XL4 – or directly via IP from streaming services.  If you schedule a recording you’re doing it on the XL4.

      Note that you *MUST* have an XL4 to use the IP STB at launch.  Even though it can access content from the Premiere & Premiere XL via MRS it *requires* an XL4 as setup is handled by ‘pairing’ with the parent DVR – which is only XL4 at launch.  Without an XL4 you can’t setup the IP STB.  This will change in a future update when they added dynamic tuner allocation and add support for the full Premiere family.

      I suspect you’re not happy to hear that.

    • http://www.gizmolovers.com/ MegaZone

      The TiVo Stream’s purpose is to extend MRS streaming to ‘second screen’ devices (iOS & Android phones and tablets) as well as to side load content onto them.

      The IP STB’s purpose is to eliminate the need for additional TiVo DVRs in other rooms.  The idea is you have on XL4 as your main DVR/content source, and then IP STBs for other TVs in the home.  You have the same TiVo interface, you’re just pulling the content off the XL4 – or directly via IP from streaming services.  If you schedule a recording you’re doing it on the XL4.

      Note that you *MUST* have an XL4 to use the IP STB at launch.  Even though it can access content from the Premiere & Premiere XL via MRS it *requires* an XL4 as setup is handled by ‘pairing’ with the parent DVR – which is only XL4 at launch.  Without an XL4 you can’t setup the IP STB.  This will change in a future update when they added dynamic tuner allocation and add support for the full Premiere family.

      I suspect you’re not happy to hear that.

      • http://dullgeek.blogspot.com dullgeek

        Geez. Lead me to think it’s going to be useful, and then force me to come crashing down again. Thanks. :)

      • http://www.twitter.com/davezatz Dave Z

        So if you buy four IP STBs at launch, your XL4 won’t be able to record anything…

        • http://www.gizmolovers.com/ MegaZone

          Not true – you can only reserve one or two tuners on the XL4 for use by IP STBs.  So you have a minimum of two tuners left for the XL4.  And you don’t have to reserve any tuners at all, as I said.  You decide to reserve 0, 1, or 2 tuners on the XL4.  If you reserve 0 then the IP STBs simply can’t do Live TV.  

          And you can have more IP STBs than reserved tuners – they form a pool shared by the IP STBs.  If you have one reserved tuner and three IP STBs – any *one* of those STBs can use Live TV at a time.  The other two would display some ‘resource unavailable’ message.

          • http://www.twitter.com/davezatz Dave Z

            Wow, they really need to clean this up. Wonder how quick they can update the logic and code? Realistically, I’d only need 2 extenders. Maybe 3. But crippling the XL4 like that is undesirable. 

          • http://www.gizmolovers.com/ MegaZone

            The more we learn the better it gets, IMHO.  At first it sounded like you had to dedicate a tuner to an IP STB.  Now we know that’s not true.  The tuners are more ‘reserved’ than ‘dedicated’ and they form a pool shared by the IP STBs. 

            And you can opt not to reserve any tuners and just not use Live TV on the STBs – which is what I plan to do.  I don’t use Live TV, so I won’t miss it at all.

            The one bit of further bad news – or really a clarification – is that you MUST have an XL4 (Elite/Q) to use the IP STB.  While it will MRS from a Premiere or Premiere XL, setup requires an XL4.  Because setup on the IP STB amounts to just ‘pairing’ it with the parent DVR, and it inherits all of the settings.  And at launch only the XL4 supports this pairing – so only the XL4 can support IP STB setup.  QED.

            But if you have an XL4 the impact is much lower than it seemed to be initially.  You can have multiple IP STBs and you only need to reserve tuners if you want to use them for Live TV.

          • http://www.twitter.com/davezatz Dave Z

            Maybe more better. But also more confusing. This is a mess. Hopefully the clean it up in short order. And, honestly, you only get the opportunity to launch a product once. Maybe they should wait to avoid the tepid TiVo Premiere response.

  • Fofer

    When the video is playing on the iPad app, does it use Apple’s standard video playback widgets/UI? I ask because I wanna know if it’ll be easily AirPlayable to an AppleTV, via the standard AirPlay icon and /or by full screen mirroring.

  • Fofer

    When the video is playing on the iPad app, does it use Apple’s standard video playback widgets/UI? I ask because I wanna know if it’ll be easily AirPlayable to an AppleTV, via the standard AirPlay icon and /or by full screen mirroring.

  • Fofer

    When the video is playing on the iPad app, does it use Apple’s standard video playback widgets/UI? I ask because I wanna know if it’ll be easily AirPlayable to an AppleTV, via the standard AirPlay icon and /or by full screen mirroring.

  • Fofer

    When the video is playing on the iPad app, does it use Apple’s standard video playback widgets/UI? I ask because I wanna know if it’ll be easily AirPlayable to an AppleTV, via the standard AirPlay icon and /or by full screen mirroring.

  • Fofer

    When the video is playing on the iPad app, does it use Apple’s standard video playback widgets/UI? I ask because I wanna know if it’ll be easily AirPlayable to an AppleTV, via the standard AirPlay icon and /or by full screen mirroring.

  • Fofer

    When the video is playing on the iPad app, does it use Apple’s standard video playback widgets/UI? I ask because I wanna know if it’ll be easily AirPlayable to an AppleTV, via the standard AirPlay icon and /or by full screen mirroring.

  • Fofer

    When the video is playing on the iPad app, does it use Apple’s standard video playback widgets/UI? I ask because I wanna know if it’ll be easily AirPlayable to an AppleTV, via the standard AirPlay icon and /or by full screen mirroring.

  • Fofer

    When the video is playing on the iPad app, does it use Apple’s standard video playback widgets/UI? I ask because I wanna know if it’ll be easily AirPlayable to an AppleTV, via the standard AirPlay icon and /or by full screen mirroring.

  • Fofer

    When the video is playing on the iPad app, does it use Apple’s standard video playback widgets/UI? I ask because I wanna know if it’ll be easily AirPlayable to an AppleTV, via the standard AirPlay icon and /or by full screen mirroring.

  • Fofer

    When the video is playing on the iPad app, does it use Apple’s standard video playback widgets/UI? I ask because I wanna know if it’ll be easily AirPlayable to an AppleTV, via the standard AirPlay icon and /or by full screen mirroring.

  • Fofer

    When the video is playing on the iPad app, does it use Apple’s standard video playback widgets/UI? I ask because I wanna know if it’ll be easily AirPlayable to an AppleTV, via the standard AirPlay icon and /or by full screen mirroring.

  • Fofer

    When the video is playing on the iPad app, does it use Apple’s standard video playback widgets/UI? I ask because I wanna know if it’ll be easily AirPlayable to an AppleTV, via the standard AirPlay icon and /or by full screen mirroring.

  • Fofer

    When the video is playing on the iPad app, does it use Apple’s standard video playback widgets/UI? I ask because I wanna know if it’ll be easily AirPlayable to an AppleTV, via the standard AirPlay icon and /or by full screen mirroring.

    • http://www.gizmolovers.com/ MegaZone

      No, playback is contained within TiVo’s iOS app.  Basically it is a newer version of the iOS (or Android) apps that are out today, with the addition of the playback functionality.

      • Fanfoot

         It *could* still support AirPlay.  Would be nice to clarify if it does at some point.  I assume NOT and wouldn’t much miss it personally, but I can see it being useful in some corner cases.

  • gcw07

    Am I understanding it correctly. Unlike the WMC extenders that only use a tuner when it is in use, these Tivo extenders will always lock up that 1 tuner.

    • http://www.gizmolovers.com/ MegaZone

      No, I actually asked about this today.  I’ll be doing yet another post with more info, but I’m waiting on a few answers via email before making the full post.

      When you reserve a tuner, or two, for use by IP STB units for Live TV they’re basically a ‘pool’ set aside for that use.  So you could have one XL4 and three IP STBs in a home, and reserve just one tuner.  Then any *one* of the IP STBs could access Live TV at a time – using that single tuner.  The other two IP STBs would display some kind of ‘resource unavailable’ error while the third is using the tuner.

      The person I spoke with at TiVo’s booth today said he believed the IP STB would give up the tuner when placed in standby mode and that it would also detect the TV being turned off when using HDMI and free the tuner.

      Note the tuner(s) you reserve for this IP STB Live TV use are *always* reserved and even if NONE of the IP STBs are using the tuner it can NEVER be used by the XL4 for anything – recording, Live TV, etc.

      But, again, this is just in the initial release.  TiVo will be moving to dynamic tuner allocation in a future update and this all becomes moot.  Once that happens the IP STB will grab a free tuner from the TiVo DVR only as needed.

      • http://twitter.com/another_1 Scott Bradley

        I like the idea of dynamic tuner allocation for the IPSTB, but it begs the question whether the tuners can be dynamic accross all devices?

        If the pool is available, why can’t a second Premier grab an extra live tuner if one is needed?

        Thoughts?

        • http://www.gizmolovers.com/ MegaZone

          So you have two Premieres – A & B – A wants to record three programs, B has a free tuner, so why can’t A grab B’s tuner?

          In theory that would work, but TiVo didn’t say anything about any plans to do this.  I think the real focus on the market is on consolidating all of those tuners into one box and having non-DVR thin clients in the other rooms, rather than having multiple DVRs.  There are a lot of benefits to this – one M-Card & Tuning Adapter (and CableCARD & TAs are still the biggest source of problems, by far), HW economy – a four or six tuner chip costs less than multiple two tuner setups, one main SoC, one drive, etc.

          But it is also a much thornier issue, conflict wise.  With the IP STB dynamic tuner allocation is only for Live TV – because that’s all the IP STB needs a tuner for.  So there is a human in the loop to handle conflict resolution.  Just as if the XL4 is recording four things today and you want to change the channel – you decide if it is OK to cancel a program right there, in real time.

          But for DVRs to cooperate and schedule recordings they’d have to be mutually aware of their schedules. How can A know B will have a tuner free when it needs it?  These decisions aren’t made in real time, they’re made in advance based on the SP priority.  And knowing whether or not you can record a particular program at a particular time effects all of the other conflict resolution decisions.

          If one unit was a master and the other slaved to it, so all of the decisions were made in one place, it would be easier.  But then most of the second unit goes to waste.

          Basically the problem is less complex when you’re just concerned with Live TV and a human interacting in real time.  But once you want to do a pool of shared tuners across multiple devices, you have to get into shared conflict resolution, and things can become non-deterministic.

          I don’t expect TiVo to do this, it is just too much work for too little market return.

          Even ReplayTV, which had shared scheduling, left the hard decisions up to the human.  They never really had this pooled tuner concept – recordings on A used tuners on A, and recordings on B used tuners on B.  The human could just push a recording request from A to B if A couldn’t handle it.

          If TiVo does anything in this area I expect it to be more cooperative scheduling.  A says “I can’t record this, could you do it for me B?”  B schedules the recording, and then when you want to watch it on A it is streamed over via MRS.  Each unit handles it’s own conflict resolution, the request from A is just like a person asking for a new recording.  And B can always say no if it is booked up.  And it something changes B notifies A and A figures out when & how to reschedule.  It’d be a much more direct evolution of what they do today, not in real time.

          Of course, TiVo hasn’t indicated they’re doing this either.

  • Fanfoot

    Much better.  Flag me as interested once again.

    Appears to me that TiVo has designed something to avoid certain corner cases, but has found those corner cases confronting it anyway.  If I set up recordings on my Elite ahead of time assuming 3 tuners, and then I come in and take one of them away for IP STB use, what will happen?  Will it spend half an hour going through its recording schedule after I designate the tuner and pop up messages to me about recordings that are now not possible?  Or send me emails?  How is this different from doing dynamic tuner allocation again?

    Regardless, an acceptable solution for the moment.

    Time to get working on the XL6…

    • http://www.gizmolovers.com/ MegaZone

      I’d expect that changing the number of tuners would be much like re-ordering entries in the Season Pass Manager.  It’d trigger a run through the scheduler and conflict resolution, rescheduling everything given the new resource levels.  But that doesn’t have to happen in real time and I think the expectation is that users aren’t going to be adding/removing tuners from the pool regularly.

      Dynamic tuner allocation means being able to handle the number of available tuners changing in real time.  And having the conflict logic for what to do when, say, all four tuners are in use and someone tries to use Live TV on the IP STB *right now*.  Do you allow the IP STB to kill a recording like changing the channel on the XL4 would prompt?  Do you pop a warning on the XL4 itself?  Both?  TiVo is considering the usability aspects of the different possibilities as they decide on the final design.But it did raise a question in my mind, which I’ve sent to TiVo and hopefully they’ll let me know the answer.  The question is this…What if I set up four recordings manually – not SPs or ARWLs.  But say ‘Record this episode’.  Four recordings all in the same time slot – so all four tuners are used.  Then I go and try to reserve two tuners for IP STBs.  What happens?Specific, fixed recordings like that aren’t dynamically rescheduled in the current system, like SPs and ARWLs can be.  Does it give you an error when you try to reduce the number of tuners?  Warn you of the issue and ask which recording(s) to kill?